There has been an interesting discussion recently over at the Australian Libertarian Society Blog regarding democracy. A lot of people seem to have some naïve views about democracy that I would like to dispel. It’s actually not that uncommon- I’ve had people in the past question the LDP’s name saying, “liberty, that’s all well and good, but why democracy? Isn’t that just mob rule and contradictory to freedom?” Well, yes and no, depending on how one views democracy. Taken in isolation democracy can be seen as to put it bluntly “two wolves and a sheep voting on what to eat for dinner” but the reality of democracy, particular the tradition of liberal democracy seen in Western nation states is far removed from such a crude analogy. So I’d like to take some time to highlight why democracy is not just a “necessary evil” but rather a good that we should strive for.
Firstly I’d like to say that I am a utilitarian- that is I believe that the most moral option is the one that provides the greatest good for the greatest number. Usually, this means that government should let individuals live their lives without interference- because individuals know what is best for them. To put it simply if Tom likes playing football, Dick likes playing Soccer and Harry likes playing Xbox the government can either force them all to do a single activity (in which case 2 are unhappy) or it can allow each of them to do what they like themselves (allowing all 3 to be happy).
Secondly I would like to say that there are occasions where government intervention provides a more utilitarian outcome. If Jack is starving to death in the gutter because he cannot afford to eat and Jill is a multimillionaire if the government takes some of Jill’s money (say, 1%) to feed Jack it will upset her a little, but the positive it will bring to Jack’s life by allowing him to live offsets that.
Hence from my perspective government should allow people to live their own lives without much interference while still providing a minimal set of services that are necessary for a civilised society. Some radical anarchists would disagree on this point, but I’m sure most Australians would agree that SOME government is necessary and a good thing.
Now with this framework set up I’d like to highlight why a democracy, in a particular a liberal democracy constrained by the constitution and the rule of law and with a universe franchise, is the superior form of government not only on utilitarian grounds, but also liberal grounds.
The first point I’d like to make is regarding accountability. The government is an exclusive institution, it is the only entity in society that is able to make legitimate use of coercive force. If you don’t pay taxes the government can threaten to throw you in jail. If you kill someone, you’ll spend time behind bars guarded by men with guns (or in some countries be executed). The government’s use of coercion and violence is necessary to protect the rule of law and ensure criminals are brought to justice. That said without a democratic system this power becomes open to abuse. Without democracy what ability would Australians have to remove a corrupt government from power? Democracy is said to be the tyranny of the majority- but without democracy you have a tyranny of a minority ruling elite much as happens in dictatorships, feudal societies and one-party states. Democracy is the means by which a government not acting in the interests of the people is able to be ejected making it imperative that a government wishing to stay in power does act in the interests of its citizens.
The second point I’d like to make is regarding limits of government. I already outlined above why it is necessary for the government to retain some functions in a civilised country like Australia. However I never really mentioned what functions a government should perform. In all honesty I believe it is quite arbitrary and based on individual values. It is almost impossible to prove that the government is the best or easiest way to solve environmental problems, for example. Some would argue that only an entity as big and powerful as government can solve climate change, while others would argue that the free market and individuals are able to solve it. Neither side can really prove their case both are relying on moral judgements to assert their points of view. When there’s a difference of opinion like this on the limits of government power the most peaceful way to resolve the debate is through democratic process. Now there is a slippery slope argument- over time as government controls more and more of our lives more and more government control can be seen as legitimate, but that is why the LDP and other groups form- in response to what we see as illegitimate government intervention. We hope to shift the debate and to highlight areas where people should reconsider government involvement because often government isn’t the most utilitarian way to do things. The constant tension between government control and individual freedom is essential an argument about values and the line will constantly shift from one side to the other. The good news for proponents of freedom is that the evidence is on our side.
Next I’d like to talk about democracy as a means for consensus building. In Australia, I’ll admit often democracy drops to the lowest common denominator- pandering to marginal electorates, campaigns targeted at “working families” that ignore other groups in society, preference deals, party discipline- the entire thing can look more like a complicated numbers game than a way of representing the interests of Australia as a whole. But democracy at least should be about representing the interests of Australia as a nation, even if at times it doesn’t live up to this standard. To refer to our earlier example of the two wolves and a sheep, but now extend it out to include two wolves, a sheep, a cow and a pig. If they were to vote on what’s for dinner one of a couple of things could happen:
- Firstly the sheep, pig and cow might vote to eat grass, slop and hay respectively. Of course each of their votes would only count for 1 while the 2 wolves, voting together to eat the sheep outvote the divided herbivores. That’s an example of a first past the post system of voting.
- Secondly the sheep, pig and cow might vote together as a herbivore bloc. Together they vote in favour of sheep being able to eat grass, pigs being able to eat slop and cows being able to eat hay. But they all vote against wolves being allowed to eat anything so the wolves die. This is often the sad situation we see in Australia with preferential voting, it’s also seen in countries with proportional voting.
- There is a third option however, the sheep, pig, cow and wolves might sit down and discuss what they’d each like for dinner. After much negotiation they might decide that the cow will provide milk for the wolves every day, the wolves can take a bite out of the pig and sheep’s hindquarters once a month (so they have long enough to heal) and the wolves in return will bring grass, slop and hay to the other animals. This is an example of consensus building where a mutually favourable outcome is reached, even where it’s not the first preference of each individual. It is a model of democracy that is seen occasionally in western systems and in my mind is the one that we should strive towards.
I feel the Democrats in particular, are one political party that understood this vision of democracy. Take the GST- they were opposed to it. However the majority elected coalition supported it and it was down to the Democrats to decide if it was passed. Now they could have blocked it but instead they decided to forge a mutually agreeable outcome, building a GST model where the key concerns of those opposed to the GST were met. Now a lot of us still didn’t like the final GST package as was introduced but the amendment to the legislation still made it preferable to the original proposal. By taking this attitude of amendment of legislation a mutually agreeable solution can (hopefully) be found- one that takes into account majority opinion, while still preserving the rights of minorities and those opposed to a particular plan.
Finally I would like to speak of the future for the democracy. I feel that with the rise of the technological age democracy has the potential to become less of a representative democracy and more of a participatory democracy where citizens don’t just vote for a party once every 3 years on current issues, but where citizens remain actively engaged in the policy development cycle throughout a government’s entire term. Last federal election one party actively campaigned on such a platform- Senator Online- now they weren’t successful, but their premise- that individuals in Australia should have a greater ability to influence public debate- is a noble one and one that I hope the major parties take up in the years to come. Even within representative democracies there are systems, in particular electoral and voting systems, which give individuals more of a say- first past the post systems ensure that only a plurality of voices are heard (which at times can be far less than 50%) and while the preferential lower house and proportional upper house are strong systems within Australia there is further reform that could see even better democratic outcomes (though I won’t get into that now).
So for me, I am a member of the Liberty and Democracy Party not just because I hold liberty as a virtue, but also because I hold democracy as a virtue. A lot of members in the party focus on the liberty aspect and indeed that is a worthwhile goal, but democracy is just as crucial. Democracy is the tool through which liberal reform can come about. Democracy, in the LDP, should not just be a casual afterthought or a lesser of evils. Democracy, especially participatory democracy and democracy as a way of achieving consensus is something that the LDP should be responsible for actively championing and promoting.
July 17, 2008 at 12:04 pm |
>If Jack is starving to death in the gutter because he cannot afford to eat and Jill is a >multimillionaire if the government takes some of Jill’s money (say, 1%) to feed Jack >it will upset her a little, but the positive it will bring to Jack’s life by allowing him to >live offsets that.
If you are talking about civilised society, as I see from the rest of the of the article you are, your example is nothing but nonsense. In a civilised(free) society the only understandable reason for Jack to be in such circumstances is mental illness. In real world such policy (Taking some money from “rich” and give to “poor”) quickly transfers to the idea “if you are rich and I am poor, you owe me, just because you have and I have not”. Please pay attention to the reason: “Why? JUST BECAUSE I haven’t”.
Here is an example- Plumber Jack is unable to find a job in plumbing industry in the area he lives. He doesn’t do anything else except looking for a PLUMBING job in the mentioned area (looking for something which does not exist) . In that case he he will eventually stuck in the situation where he couldn’t afford to BUY food (he still able to catch fish, gather/grow at least potatoes). Why he was looking for something which does not exist? Only two featheble explanations:
1. He is mentally sick.
2. From his childhood until now he has been tought, that there is nothing wrong in forcibly taking a little amount of wealth from the one who has plenty of it and give to the one who has not (trust me, every theif will tell you the same). And he shouldn’t struggle that much for his survival.
So, if we are talking about capable person, Jack can become a cleaner while studying to do something else. He can move to the area where plumbers are in demand. At least he can go and live in the bush. Or may be it is “incovinient” and hard? Well, it may be, but why CEO of Plumbing Ltd. , who may also work hard, have to pay for somebodies convinience? Do you have any objective and rock-solid criteria to determine who is “rich” and who is “poor”? If you don’t, well I am pretty sure you don’t, why do you propose such uncertain policy to be implemented by someone having all powers to force you to do something?
I am not sure how much do you know about Australian skilled migration policy. But in case you don’t know let me tell you, skilled migrants are not eligible for government payments (Dole for example) for the period of two years. So they (we, as I was one of them) have to carefully prepare to rely on themselves only. You think skilled migrants are arriving from prosperous contries and with English as native? I want to believe you don’t. We were and are doing whatever needed to survive and establish ourselves in Austalian society. The fact, that we are “skilled migrants” often doesn’t mean much. To work in area, where we are skilled at, we are often need to study and pass numerous exams in australian university. So we were and are prepared for that. Lots of us come to the country having just cople of thousands bucks, a bag with some garments, awful English, no friends here and “skill” which we cannot utilise (see plumber example above. That plumber is even in a better situation then we are, his name is Jack and no doubt he has at least native Enlish). You think we are complaining? Not at all. We starting here as cleaners, labourers, security guards and after few years become respected members of Australian society, and the one’s whos property (money) you want to take and give to that plumber Jack from example above. Could you please tell me, why do you think Jack is better then we are?
July 17, 2008 at 12:37 pm |
Now few words about general idea of you article. I don’t understand why do you see a need to talk specifically about democracy separately from liberty.
In the case, when we have government\state, there is no liberty without democracy, but democracy doesn’t necesserely means liberty . It is the same like “every square is quadrangle, but not every quadrangle is square”. So, when you say “liberty and democracy” you say the same thing as “quadrangles and squares”. No doubt, after such clause being written and pronounced you make people think that you are talking about two different things quadrangles and squares, liberty and democracy.
So, instead of writing huge articles explaning things of common sence, just don’t create such mess yourself. Don’t say “quadrangles and squares” and “liberty and democracy”.
PS. Please don’t consider me as “radical anarchists”, “libertarian” etc. as you tend to do sometimes . You don’t know me, you don’t know all my views on government (yes, I recognise a need in government).
July 18, 2008 at 9:39 am |
The article was written a while back and was in response to some discussion that had been taking place over at the ALS blog.
A lot of libertarians are unnecessarily critical of democracy. This was explaining why I hold democracy as an important liberal value. I doubt John Stuart Mills would through democracy out the window in the same way a lot of libertarians do. I don’t agree with rights centric arguments- I, like most Australian voters, assess things more in terms of outcomes. If libertarians are to make any headway we need to ensure we focus on why small government provides better outcomes.
For every example there is a counter example.
Jack the plumber did his apprenticeship and got a job as a plumber. The company he works for goes out of business and now Jack is out of a job. He has a mortgage that obviously with no income he couldn’t afford to maintain. Should Jack be forced to sell his house and give up the “Australian dream” because of bad luck? Possibly, but most Australians are happy to accept a kind of social insurance that protects against bad luck.
Welfare doesn’t always get it right- but in general it is social insurance. And as an immigrant you actually had a choice in deciding to accept that social insurance and social contract when moving here. I don’t mind having a social contract that we are bound by as a condition of living in Australia. There are alternatives, after all. What I don’t like is that it is presupposed that we are born into the social contract of the country we are born into. There should be a “no citizenship” option. I guess there is, though, it’s called rebellion. People would rather accept a social contract than take a risk, however. Like how people would rather accept Work Choices than risk a freer labour market.
As for liberty and democracy. Well, there’s a lot of discussion in the LDP about improving liberty, but democracy isn’t a binary there’s more options than democratic and non-democratic (despite what Americans may have us believe). The reason I focused this article on the importance of democracy is because I wanted to discuss improved democracy. Participatory democracy. Consensus-driven democracy. More representative democracy. Democracy itself isn’t enough, first past the post is NOT as liberal, or free as proportional systems. Unicameral systems are not as free as bicameral systems.
A party of liberty and democracy should progress both liberty and democracy. Not just liberty and leave the broken democratic frame as it is.
July 18, 2008 at 11:37 am |
> What I don’t like is that it is presupposed that we are born into the social contract of the country we are born into. There should be a “no citizenship” option.
Hmm… Australian citizens also have two years waiting period getting social security allowance if they spent more then 2 years outside of the country. This sounds even more ridicules due they can be recognized as Australian residents for tax purposes and pay tax in Australia in addition to a local taxes payed in country of residence.
BTW your story about ”Jack the plumber” and his “Australian dream” can be (and I have a strong point of view should be) solved in this way – in case of loosing job he will get, say, 75% of his after tax salary first 6 months, than reduce this payments till nil over the time, say, in next 12 months. Also I would cap the social security payments towards the amount of tax paid the person. The reason is simple – current amount of money paying for dole sounds like a lame joke. Getting the dole will not help Jack to keep his “Australian dream” (just count monthly payment for mortgage of home 300 000 and compare this with newstart allowance) but give the big impact to financial system of the country. Falling in dole will push Jack (described in your story) to find job in the same area for the same salary ASAP even if his area of labor will suffer from shortage/close businesses in dying sector. It gives no chance for him to analyze the situation and probably study new technology or even change his field of working (say, become electrician)
Current dole schema supports only people who ready to live at this level whole their life and doesn’t give any chance to jump up from this level.
Why this social schema comes to every person “by default” – why this cannot be replaced by personal contract between a social security and a particular member with a premium payed by a member and benefits received by a member from the level of insurance covered by his premium? I believe that people are clever enough to make decision by themselves. If not – probably they need some custody, but, again, not for everyone “by default”.
July 18, 2008 at 12:05 pm |
> Like how people would rather accept Work Choices than risk a freer labour market.
I’ve had absolutely fabulous conversation with one woman who supported Work Choices. She was sure that this gives her insurance. I started ask her smile questions – where the business gets its money that it pays to her wages? She answered – from the market. I asked her – what should business owner do if market become skinny? Can he reduce her payments? She answered – no,no,no! Then, I said, the business owner will close his business and you will be jobless on dole rather then getting smaller payments from suffering business that trying to survive and probably will survive if will not be closed. But with Work Choices owner of the business has no choice. As a result your insurance from Work Choices equal to insurance to get dole faster than it would be without any Work Choices. She was very dissatisfacted but can answer nothing.
Getting Work Choices on board – the government should think more carefully about social security payments, but I guess that the aim of Work Choices was completely opposite, isn’t it?
July 18, 2008 at 12:08 pm |
Pardon me for misspell
I started to ask her with simple questions
And so on…
July 18, 2008 at 1:39 pm |
Your counter example is not that counter. You are talking about abslotely the same thing. Jack wants someone to participate in his lifestile (the one he had chosen himself) protection, i.e insurance. Why? Because otherwise he will have to work harder to afford “insurance quote”. And he is using brute force to do that. Question is still the same, why Jack is more priveleged than CEO of Plumbing Ltd.? Well, not even that CEO, but me, myself? I want someone to protect MY lifestile (chosen by me) too. Or is it impossible? Yes, thats the answer – impossible. (Don’t tell me, that any welfare I am entitled to could protect my lifestile – no way.)
Buy the way, do you want real numbers? Do some math and think if LDP policy of 30/30 would help Jack to pay his mortgage (or even current policy). Well, I think you realise that it wouldn’t. When MPs, or LDP members discuss particular amounts of money to be paid, an average mortgage never beign taken in account. What is being taken in account – is survival. But I have already told you, the amount of money one gets from welfare, could be saved by any capable person and you are talking with one, who did it himself (me). Although, my preparations were done in much more violent environment then liberal Australia (don’t mess it with total anarchy, violance came from or was supported by government people). So the real purpose of you propasal is rape ones, so they won’t need to work hard enough.
Now about the choice I had moving to Australia. Did I? Yes, the same choice you will have when someone offers you “you money or your life!”. No doubt you’ll choose less evil. Does it mean you’ve freely accepted it? NO. The same applyes to so-called “my choice”.
When we are talking about society, we are talking just about closely communicating people, nothing else. Society\community do not have desires, cannot action, unable to think. Only human being , individual could do that. So when you say “society did”, that means some individuals did. And number or percentage doesn’t mean any principal change. Even funnier, when robbery is commited by organised group of people, it is normally considered as more severe then one commited by one (Doesn’t mean that I agree with that though)
Now back to society. In any given set of people, each individual has number assets. If he/she doesn’t have something, only options to get it are: Receive a gift, create him/herself from assets they own, forcibly take from one who has it (robbery/fraud), voluntarily exchage with someone. There are no other options. Not even one. So what exactly you are proposing? I see, that you are proposing robbery, hiding it under pretty , but far from being precise, words. If you are responsible person and want to prove your point, you have just two options:
1. Provide an example of something which couldn’t be listed under on of the types of communications (gift, selfconstruction, robbery/fraud, voluntary exchange)
2. Prove that your proposal , i.e. forcibly take some amount of assets from “rich” and give it to “poor” is not robbery/fraud, but voluntarily exchange (gift or something selfmade).
And yeah, the last thing you have said :”The party of liberty and democracy should progress both, liberty and democracy. Not just liberty and leave the brokendemocratic frame as it is.” I don’t know what to say. May be just ask you? Ok, how in the real word you can progress with liberty “leaving democratic frame as it is”? It is not possible, an you know that. To progress with liberty , you have to fix “democratic frame”. You have to, there is no other way! But the thing you are doing is “progressing with liberty”. Why you still need that mess?
January 4, 2009 at 9:55 pm |
Explain the morality of forcible seizure of Jill’s property? Think of it this way, is it wrong to kill one innocent person? Yes! Is it wrong to kill 10 innocent people? Yes! Therefore quantity cannot be a determinate of morality .Killing innocent people is wrong. So the seizure of Jill’s property would be no different to the seizure of Jack’s property, Jacks circumstance is irrelevant. two wrongs do not make a right.